A good sales presentation is like a polished stage performance. It’s involving and captivating. It makes you sit up and take notice and it motivates you to action. In a theatre, you will applaud; on a sales call, the prospect will show approval by signing on the dotted line. At the start of his enormously successful career, Ed McMahon practiced his sales skills in front of a mirror until he had mastered every phase of the sale from voice projection to holding the product with reverence. In this exclusive interview held in his NBC Burbank dressing room with PSP publisher Gerhard Gschwandtner, McMahon shares the secrets that have kept him on the top rung of the persuasion ladder for over 20 years.

A salesperson has to motivate him or herself to get the juices flowing. Ed has described guests on The Tonight Show who get angry at themselves in order to inspire a superb performance. In the early lean years of McMahon’s career during weeks of pavement pounding that yielded no parts, he had to be tough on himself, to see the importance of his goals, and, above all, to push himself to try one more time.

“You’ve got to pull yourself up by your bootstraps. I remember certain times when I was selling stainless steel cookware door to door in Washington. Many a night I didn’t want to go out because it was hard work and I hated to face the rejection again and again. But I would work from 5 til 10 o’clock. You couldn’t work much after 10 because you can’t call on people then in their homes. Even 9:30 is almost too late. But I would work those hours, no matter what. Sometimes I made my first sale of the evening at quarter of ten. I’d been working all night and hadn’t sold a thing. But at 9:45pm, I sold something. So if I had quit because I hadn’t done very well, I would not have made that sale for the night. You just have to motivate yourself to do that. Just make up your mind you’re going to do that tonight and you really, literally pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

You have to make a commitment to yourself by setting up a false feeling that you’ve got to get this done. You have to push yourself and be a little upset because you’re not getting it done. So you do use a little anger, or an edge. It’s almost the same way as a performer uses the ordinary butterflies that we all get. A good performer uses that to get his energy up. He uses that for energy commitment.”

According to McMahon’s early experience selling on Atlantic City’s famous boardwalk, the first secret for mastering the sale was to establish psychological dominance over the buyer.

“When I was a pitchman on the Boardwalk in Atlantic City, you stood higher than everybody else. You were on a box. You didn’t work at the same eye level as the customer. The idea was to be in a superior position. And it works.

Next, in the same way that a comic uses humor to trip up mental detours, the salesperson trips up the prospect’s side trips. In other words, you take the customer down a pathway. You’re in charge. You’re leading the way. And they think they’re going in a certain direction and then you move them. That’s what makes people laugh at a joke. It’s the same technique in selling as in getting laughs.”

And, of course, a salesperson has to get the prospect’s attention. The ideal is to be able to focus the prospect’s attention on your physical appearance and your voice quality to engage the prospect in what you are saying and showing.

“A commanding voice is a good attention getter. Develop your voice so that by itself it commands respect. In other words, just the sound of your voice should draw people to you. An attractive appearance is another way to get that focus – that attention. Present yourself, in terms of body language as having the aura of success – of accomplishment. The aura of, again, that superiority that says you seem to be on top of the world. Have that feeling about yourself and convey that in your body language.

Johnny Carson has done all of the things I’ve just talked about. He certainly has a commanding voice. He has good body language. He has a presence. When he’s doing the monologue he has a superior attitude. Like, here I am, I’m telling these jokes. Listen to me. This is what’s funny. He has all of that going for him and he is a good example of it. He’s also a hard worker.”

Ed downplays his own polish and panache when he talks about the man whose stage he has shared for over 25 years. He doesn’t tell you how he warms up the audience for Johnny every night – how he hands that mass of people to Johnny on a silver platter. Nor does the self-effacing McMahon promote his own accomplishments pitching products that range from dog food to beer to sweepstakes promotions. He readily admits that Johnny polishes his presentations – but so does Ed.

“A good storyteller has a good sense of time. And that has to do with the presentation. You know, it’s step by step by step by step to the conclusion. And that’s what Johnny Carson does. In other words, a bad storyteller is a guy who starts to tell you a story and then halfway through he says, `Oh, I forgot to tell you the man is a priest.’ And you say, `Oh, why am I wasting my time?’ Johnny Carson doesn’t waste your time. We pay attention to him and we listen to him. You’re going to get something. You’re going to get to a conclusion with Johnny – a laugh. So it’s worthwhile. His presentation has a kind of rhythm to it. So and so happened, so and so happened, so and so happened, and then this happened. And it’s that, `This happened,’ which provokes the laugh. Also, Johnny Carson’s material is always fresh and in tune with the audience. And I think that’s the greatest thing in selling. You must keep the material you’re presenting fresh. Be sure it fits today.

A lot of people who are not in show business are good storytellers. My father was a very good storyteller. When my father and his cronies went on a fishing trip, why if something happened, somebody would start to tell a story and everybody would say, `Wait a minute. Let Eddie tell it,’ because they knew if Eddie told it, it would be a lot better story.”

Ed built his success brick by brick. No one walked him onstage and handed him an audience. He figured out what he wanted, set reasonable goals and worked to achieve them. From the early days of pounding the pavements of hardhearted New York trying to get acting jobs, Ed learned how to turn disappointment into resolve.

“Early in life, I found a pattern of achievement based on setting attainable goals and accomplishing them. Once you accomplish the first goal, set another attainable goal and accomplish that. Pretty soon that pattern becomes the norm rather than something strange. That’s what I’ve done. The success of reaching a goal helped me with the next one. It spurred me on to another stepping stone. It worked for me and it’s been something I’ve used in everything I ever did.

Way in the back of my mind I might have thought, `One day I’ll sit back in a rocking chair and watch the world go by.’ But I don’t think I could handle the inactivity and the nothingness of it. I’d have to be doing something.

I started out with an advantage growing up in that I was taller than all my peers. That gave me a head start in thinking about superiority and success. Success breeds success. It feeds on itself. As kids, when we built a clubhouse, I was the one who did most of the planning and figured out how to hang the window or how to get the door to work. In the same way, my father was the one to tell the story. I was called on to do something because they felt I would do it right.”

When Ed begins his pitch, he has prepared the groundwork. He knows the material, his product and the customer. He holds forth with self-assurance and the familiar smooth voice that seems to say, “You can trust me and I say this product will be good for you.” A salesperson who can perfect that technique will find doors swinging open wide and customers flocking to be sold.

“Try to develop a sincerity where you maintain good eye contact. Don’t look away from the prospect. Don’t appear to be stumbling. Be really into the process of what you’re doing. You’re persevering. You’re moving forward. Your eyes are telling the person. It’s part of getting their attention and holding their attention. You’ve got to do your homework of course. You’ve got to have all your marbles together and stack them up the way you want and make your pitch. Like Johnny Carson has to go for the big laugh that they didn’t want to give.

As a pitchman, the way you held the object, or how you held the product, was very important. I mean, we held it with great reverence – great regard. You’d hold up the Vegomatic slicer like it was made out of platinum, you know, bigger than it was. You do that in selling with words. Certain words have better pictures in them than others. Try to use those words. Supplement what is there with word pictures that enhance the value of what you’re presenting. After you get the attention, synchronize with the customer.

A lot of my skill in selling was developed through trial and error. I realized that if people weren’t comfortable where we were showing the display, that would affect them. They’d be embarrassed in certain rooms they may not be as proud of as another room. I let the customers pick out the best location in the house for my demonstration. I wanted the best location as far as lighting was concerned so I would do that part. In other words, if they said they wanted to go into the den, then I’d find the best place for me to sit down where I had good lighting so that all the cookware was laid out on a piece of black velvet. It would look like it was a million dollars. The way I laid it out and had it set up was all part of the sale.

I think it’s always best to position yourself opposite the customer in that kind of sale. If you’re sideways, they’re looking at you sideways. That’s not as comfortable as looking right straight on. You have to decide based on what you are selling and the circumstances of the environment.

In a sale, be aware of the drag to lift ratio. Increase the lift by creating desire. You want to get this person to really want what you have. In other words, if it’s this fountain pen or pots and pans or a magazine, whatever it is, you want them to really desire that. Then to reduce the drag, you give them all the reasons and all the ways that they can get it. We used to have a gimmick where we’d clearly have them sold on cookware. There was no reason why they didn’t want this cookware. It was the most wonderful cookware in the world and the way we presented it made it even more wonderful. So we created the desire there. They wanted it. Now, how do they get it? They’re already using pots and pans. I asked to look at them because there was a liberal trade in allowance. If you’ve ever looked at anybody’s pots and pans, no two pots are alike. With our set, everything matched. The thing was to remove the obstacle of the old cookware. So you reduce the drag there. You’ve cut down the obstacles.”

How Ed handled early rejections created the climate for his success later on. Bad news is something we all have to face. Selling, the great numbers game, is more a game of rejection than of acceptance. If you look for constant acceptance, you’ll be down in the dumps most of the time.

“Handling rejection is the biggest stumbling block for salespeople. I remember when I was starting to try to break into New York, going over to the city for auditions. The first migraine headache I ever had was based on the fact that I lost an audition. I was so down. I lost the next 30 or 40 and that was a bad way to start because I thought I was going to crack New York easily. Handling that is tough and the only thing you can do is just, once again, pull yourself up by your bootstraps. There’s a great song, “Pick Yourself Up, Dust Yourself Off, and Start All Over Again”. And that’s true.

New York was maybe the toughest period of my life. The last 10 years, I really haven’t lost anything. Everything I’ve gotten now either just came to me what I call over the transom, or it was something that if I went after it, I got it. As far as the blues are concerned, we all have days where we just don’t seem to be on top of it. But, once again, you look to tomorrow. Tomorrow is another day and you’ll be all right.

When I started to develop a night club act, a lot of people told me, `That ambition is too far for you.’ In other words, you’re not that talented. You’re not that good of a singer. You’re not that good of a joke teller. But I put it all together and I had an acceptable act and I got good reviews.”

To handle fear, Ed uses a simple, but time tested technique. He just doesn’t give in to it. Although he recognizes that rejection is a reality of selling, fear of failure is generated from within.

“I remember when the war broke out, I wanted to be a Marine fighter pilot. The odds against that were very strong. Out of 150 people that applied at the start of the program, two got their wings. That’s not a very good percentage. I got my wings. When I took the psychological test at Pensacola, based on how I had answered the questions they gave me land-based bombers. I went back before the psychological board and appealed my case and showed why they had put me in land based bombers based on the answers I had given. I won my case and they put me in fighters. So I won’t let the fear of failing happen. I won’t let myself fail. I keep plugging until I make it.”

Based on practical application of psychological tenets, Ed has developed a unique system for giving and getting favors in a selling situation. A generous person by nature, he has taken his natural desire to share with those around him and turned it into a win-win situation.

“You have to obligate people in a nice, polite way. I always feel very sorry, in a sense, for the people who are doing the kind of work that requires tipping. It’s tough work. Catering to the public is not a great job because a lot of the public are not very nice. And these people have to cater to their whims and get pushed around a little. So I overtip. And it’s like Karma, what goes around, comes around. Because you get better service. I mean you get everything done and that’s nice. It’s a nice thing to have. Because if you’re going to go out, you want good service. So it’s a two way street. It gets you happiness because you’re helping people, but it also gets you good service.

In the same way there is a psychological bargaining chip that you get when you give something to a customer. Your customer feels obligated to reciprocate. But also the basic philosophy is that you can be nice and get pleasure from being nice to people.”

In dealing with a quiet prospect, McMahon recognizes that it’s not an easy job. His formula calls for extra effort and a shared participation.

“Well, winning them over is one of the toughest problems in selling. Try to get them to participate in anything. Work harder. You have to put out more energy and extend yourself a little more. Be sharper. Be better. Every once in a while I’ll have an audience that the producer has already talked to before I go out there. He’ll come back and say, `You’ve got your work cut out for you tonight.’ And when I go out to see Doc, he kisses me on the cheek as he hands over the microphone and whispers, `Oh, they’re tough.’ In other words, nothing that anybody has done so far has worked. So right away, I come out of the chute fighting. I mean I have twice as much energy. Twice as much pizzazz on my first remark. I heighten myself more to get them. Because my job is to get them and turn them over to Johnny Carson. It’s the same way with tough, quiet prospects. You’ve got to work harder and spend more energy to get a hold of them in a very intelligent way so you don’t burn out.

You have to know the limits and the needs of the engine that drives you. Every engine needs three things: the right fuel mixture, compression, and a hot spark. Having all the ingredients, utilizing them in the proper manner, and then getting that spark which would be the energy – that’s how you fuel your own engine. Then, having done it over the years, you learn to keep everything under control within the boundaries of your own talent and experience.”

Ed’s motivation to run that engine is an integral part of what makes the man tick. He views his professional life as a combination of strategy and determination. This is not a man who slipped on a banana peel, got a laugh and automatically walked onstage to applause ever since. He has worked diligently and hard to get and stay where he is.

“I like the strategy involved in poker. I mean it’s all strategy. It’s like being a general in a war. You know, you’ve got your men, your machinery, your ships, whatever it is, and you’ve got to put them in the right place and get them to where they’re supposed to be and then sink the enemy. I love to play poker because of that. There’s that challenge and you can go with very little and make it, or you can be a little too sure of yourself. If you have too much and you think you can really kill them it happens to me all the time where I know I’ve got this one and you know someone has got you beaten. But I like to try to outwit the other guy – to out strategize him.

One of the rules of success is to realize that achieving success is a war, not a battle. You can lose the battle, but you can win the war. In other words, you can get just a couple of points going down the line, but as long as you score the touchdown, you know, get the ball across the finish line, you’ve won the battle. In other words, in each sales presentation, there are places where you can sell and places that are not that great. But if you make the sale it doesn’t make any difference how you got there.”

And what is the toughest aspect of selling for Ed?

“Overcoming the rejection. I really had to fight hard to move on to the next thing. Because I thought so positively about everything that when it didn’t happen, I didn’t know how to handle it.

In other words, getting there was an incredible, almost insurmountable task. Once you get there, I mean people are throwing stuff at you. I remember my father used to say, `Don’t go after money, go after success. Because if you get success, they’ll throw the money at you.’ And it’s true. I’ve used that all my life. I’ve gone on to be successful and then everything else happened after that. I mean from being on The Tonight Show, I’ve made movies, I got other shows, I got commercials, I’ve gotten all these other things. The Tonight Show is the well. Once I got The Tonight Show and did well in that, everything else came over the transom. Most of the things I’ve gotten in this business have come over the transom. But, of course, the focus was The Tonight Show. I was there.”

What gives Ed the most meaning in his work?

“Well I love doing The Tonight Show. I love the challenge of being the second banana. I try to be the best second banana there is. I also like my other role on Star Search because that gives me a chance to foster and help some young people coming along in this business – to transfer something back to them. So I get two elements of pleasure that are strong.

On The Tonight Show I am the second banana. I am Johnny Carson’s foil. But I’m also his confidant, his pal and his devil’s advocate. But being the second banana and doing that well, being there when you’re needed and being out of the way when you’re not, that’s the toughest role there is. To do that…you know, just never be in the way, to always be right there when you’re needed, but out when not, that’s tough.”

Salespeople could take a page from Ed’s book. Learning how to subjugate your own desires and needs for the benefit of the sale (in Ed and Johnny’s case the laugh) can lead to great success. Letting the customer and his needs take center stage can earn more sales than all the grandstanding ever could. Learning how to sublimate yourself and yet maintain a feeling of success, to subordinate yourself to somebody else, without feeling as if you have given away your claim for success – that’s the key to playing second fiddle and coming out on top.

“But I look upon this as a real challenge, as a difficult job, being a second banana. And I like to do it well. That’s my challenge. And when I do it well, then I’ve got the highest level of success that I could ever want. Because I’ve taken a difficult job and mastered it. I never look at it as subordinating myself. The job calls for a certain role. And if you fulfill that role and do it well, that’s all you’re required to do.”