Personality Sells

Hey, Vern I

Got a li’ l plumbing problem, eh?

Vern, why don’t you give up this home maintenance show and get down to Tyson’s Toyota…

I wuz just cruisin’ by there, Vern, and they have got some dream machines priced to go…KnoWhutImean? And Vern, when ya get a used car from Tyson’s Toyota, it will be, as they say, the Epitome of Excellence. Comprendo…de-javue…?

C’mon, Vern. This stuff can wait.

Besides…it works up here.

He’s the number one rube on the tube, the man with the moldable mouth, widest grin north, west and south. He’s your old buddy Ernest -KnoWhutImean, Vern? Actor Jim Varney left Hollywood during an actors’ strike, took a career turn south, wound up near Nashville not too far from his own down-home beginnings and the rest is sales legend. Now he’s starring in a movie scheduled for summer release. The title? What else but Ernest Goes To Camp.

And who’s responsible for this madman of the 30 second spot with the wide angle grin and the face that could sink your living room? Advertising genius John Cherry of Carden & Cherry, Nashville, Tennessee.

Cherry scripts and directs Varney as Ernest in hundreds of TV commercials a year. They sometimes churn out a breathtaking 20 plus a day. Filmed at the Varney or Cherry homesteads (to get that authentic Ernest coming right through your window to give you the latest low-down on everything from yogurt to Toyotas), the commercials have been a howlingly funny success from New York to Dallas and everywhere in between.

In this exclusive PSP interview with the man who put Ernest and Vern in your home, Cherry shares the secrets of the Ernest sales-success story.

PSP: What brought you to the point where you created the Ernest character?

John Cherry: Mental illness…(laughter)…I was trying to come up with an advertising campaign that positioned our client, an amusement park, against a larger amusement park. The idea for the character was to create a guy who knew all there was to know about everything. Whatever deal you had, he had a better one.

PSP: What made you think that a character like Ernest would sell products?

John Cherry: People want to be entertained. When you’re selling, if you can find something that will entertain while it sells, you have a winner.

PSP: And this know-it-all character was entertaining…

John Cherry: He was a character who set himself up for a fall. He was basically a failure. I think more than anything else what appeals to people about the Ernest character is his honesty.

PSP: Are you talking about the honesty of the character?

John Cherry: Well, as a character and in the situation. When he gets up there and tells you that his product is better than the others…when he tells you in a way that is open and honest and on top of that puts himself in a situation where he takes a fall then it is going to be fun to watch.

PSP: The viewer is watching someone who is willing to fail to make the sale.

John Cherry: That’s right. You don’t want to hear about my success, you want to hear about my failure.

PSP: Do you think that entertaining people is the best way to break down resistance?

John Cherry: Yes and no. In every one of the Ernest commercials we try to get our client to be as honest as possible. If in the process of making a sale, I make fun of myself and I do it in an especially honest way, then when I come to the real sales pitch, you are going to be more likely to believe me. In that sense entertainment breaks down resistance. I think that is one of the reasons that the Ernest character works. A) He entertains. B) When we write the script, we try to be honest about the product or the service and we try to make fun through Ernest. Ernest can say things that a guy who is supposedly an expert would never say.

PSP: From what I have read, the Ernest character was accepted immediately by the advertisers and the public.

John Cherry: And also rejected immediately.

PSP: Oh, really?

John Cherry: When we first started, we got letters from people who just hated it because it was so aggressive. The technique we use to shoot the commercials is so different and anytime you do something out of the ordinary you are going to have hate mail.

PSP: With this big success did you know what you were shooting for?

John Cherry: I had no idea what I was doing, even today – (laughs again) I knew that Jim Varney who plays the Ernest character had also played another one we developed earlier called Sergeant Glory. This went on for six years and was successful in a few markets, but I was too young and naive at the time to realize that the success depended on rolling it out market to market.

PSP: What selling techniques could a salesperson use that the Ernest character uses?

John Cherry: Well, I think that the biggest thing in the character is that Ernest shows his vulnerability. He’s open, and it is just the talent of Jim Varney that he’s able to show that in a character. He doesn’t have any walls up, he is totally open. He is 100 percent honest. He’s trying to impress you and at the same time you know he can’t do it and you can read right through him. That’s what makes him so attractive. And funny.

PSP: How did you sell Ernest to your clients?

John Cherry: I think in selling the Ernest package to clients that same philosophy was important. To be as open and straight up front and as vulnerable as possible. When a client asked what problems we had had with the Ernest commercials, we’d show them the letters, the hate mail. And we would say, “You’re going to get some mail like this. These things are going to happen to you.”

PSP: You almost gave them an objection before they could voice their own.

John Cherry: I told many clients that if they couldn’t take getting this kind of mall, don’t use Ernest. If you have to shout at your public and say “Buy this for $29.95 today only and save this,” then you don’t need Ernest.

PSP: What do you say to clients in favor of using Ernest?

John Cherry: I tell them that Ernest addresses the kinsmanship they may have with their audience.

PSP: The kinsmanship…do you mean the identification that people have with that part of Ernest that everybody has in them – that they know everything but they screw up all the time, too?

John Cherry: Right. It’s like being embarrassed and trying to do something to cover up what you did. You walk into a room and your zipper is down, so you say, “Hey, I wear it that way all the time.” Try to stay cool no matter what. I had always envisioned the North would be tough to sell because of the Ernest character being Southern. But our biggest Ernest fans are in Maine, Canada, Washington, D.C., Detroit, New York City. Maybe that is because in the major markets it’s refreshing to see somebody whose honesty is so appealing.

PSP: What do you think is the most underused sales tool?

John Cherry: Honesty – the principle of being yourself. I think a lot of times people change to fit what they think their market is or wants them to be. We seem to always try to put people in little cubbyholes no matter how much we ourselves try to get out of them.

PSP: And how do you feel about selling?

John Cherry: I think selling is the most creative work there is.

PSP: Why is that?

John Cherry: Because you have to perform on your feet.

PSP: When you say perform, what do you mean?

John Cherry: Well, you have an objective. You have to convince other people what you have is for them. So you are doing a number of things. You are acting, you have to be organized, you are playing a strategy game…you are doing all of these things. And with no script. That is why salespeople get the most money in the world – because they are good. I mean the guy who gets the credit for something is the guy who sells it, rarely the one who makes it.

PSP: What are some of the techniques used in acting that a salesperson could use successfully in selling?

John Cherry: The best actors are the ones who put themselves into it. One of the reasons Jim Varney, who plays Ernest, is so good is because he gives you 100 percent. He gives you all of it.

PSP: So a salesperson on a call must really throw himself into it and almost lose himself in the part…

John Cherry: They have got to believe in the part. They have got to believe in the product they are selling and their profession and in themselves. And when they do that, you have got to go with them. You and I have both bought things that the salesman loved so much, well, you just felt his products had to be right. My biggest sales have been ones where I wasn’t trying to sell – where I wasn’t really pitching it.

PSP: How do you think a salesperson can size up his prospects and play to their real desires or wants?

John Cherry: Really, he is not playing to anybody but himself. I think that is the secret. You don’t know there is an audience. You just play the part. In selling, it’s like a relationship with your mate. If your effort is to make his or her life better, easier, more comfortable, sexually more enjoyable, then your reward is going to come. Because the guy at the other end is usually buying a product or a service that makes his life better or easier. And if you are really concerned about that part of his life, then he is going to buy the deal.

PSP: What are the similarities between directing an actor and managing a sale?

John Cherry: There is a similarity in the sense that when you try to land an account or a major sale or make a presentation and you prepare and you rehearse and rehearse and then it’s showtime. And after showtime you critique your show if it is great or if it is garbage. Same thing when you prepare an account presentation. You work on it, you rehearse, you work out the bugs, try to figure out what your audience will like and dislike, approve of and disapprove of. You get up there, you do your act and you get a phone call and they tell you whether you got the account or not.

PSP: Are you going through this now with the movie Ernest Goes To Camp?

John Cherry: Correct. I now have to sit back and wonder if the public will accept it.

PSP: And you don’t find out until the summer.

John Cherry: That’s right. I have to wait until May 22nd.

PSP: What do you do in between?

John Cherry: Worry. (laughter)

PSP: What is your measure of success?

John Cherry: I think I achieved success when I realized that I already had it. That all I had to do was spend time with my kids and my wife. Take care of those kinds of things and not be a slave to my production.

PSP: So success for you involves balance.

John Cherry: Yes. At one time I didn’t have that kind of balance.

PSP: Because you were so…

John Cherry: Ambitious. Win every sale, win every play. And ironically, when I saw that my family was more important than those things and I found the time for them that I should have been giving, I really began to score.

PSP: So having that kind of balance helps in the professional area.

John Cherry: Oh, I think so, 150 percent. Because those things you thought were so important all of a sudden are not that important.

PSP: You mean all the striving for the tangible signs of success.

John Cherry: Right. And when they are not that important, you are a lot more relaxed when you are in the sales position.

PSP: So that everything doesn’t depend on that sale.

John Cherry: Right.

PSP: Is creativity a help to the average salesperson?

John Cherry: Oh yes. I mean there are a lot of guys who sit around with good ideas. Putting them to the test and then dealing with all the problems that come with each idea, and then facing those problems, and then when all the supporters abandon the idea – then you have to have faith in it and keep working at it, stand up against the current and see how hard you can make it hold. That takes a person who has ideas and can sell them. That’s real creativity at work.

PSP: So you consider part of creativity as the art of selling a good idea…

John Cherry: Oh sure, you can have ideas all day long but if you can’t sell them, then they are not any good.

PSP: Do you have a motto that keeps you going?

John Cherry: Yes.

PSP: What is it?

John Cherry: Stay tuned on no matter what.

PSP: And how do you do that?

John Cherry: Well, I believe if you are not up for the pitch, don’t go. If you are not fired up to play the game, to play ball, don’t go play. Because you are just going to lose.

PSP: And how do you fire yourself up?

John Cherry: That’s tough. I guess the way I get fired up is to get involved. Different things motivate different people, different personalities. When I think I am going to lose, that is when I get the most fired up. I can remember calling a prospect and I wouldn’t even be able to get him on the phone. First of all, I would be afraid to call him, afraid of…what all salesmen are afraid of…rejection. But as soon as I got the rejection, for me that was a challenge.

PSP: So you got past the fear.

John Cherry: Well, I still had the fear. But the worst thing a guy can do for himself is to reject me.

PSP: Because then you are going to keep coming at him?

John Cherry: And by God, I’m going to get him. I mean rejection is THE worst part of sales.

PSP: What do you think is the source of your creative energy?

John Cherry: Gosh, you have all the hard questions.

PSP: Well, I tried. Because I know you like difficult situations.

John Cherry: Well, back in school, some guys could run the football. I was an artist. I went to art school.

PSP: So you had a special talent.

John Cherry: Sure, that’s what I did. But today, I guess, I get a charge out of starting something and seeing it finished. I get a kick out of people watching the thing and getting a laugh out of it. Then I get a kick out of solving creative problems like “Is it funnier if he does this or is it funnier if he does that?”

PSP: It sounds as if you have made a lot of professional moves. How have you managed those changes? For example, a lot of salespeople go from selling to managing and all of a sudden they find that they are no good at managing.

John Cherry: Two completely different skills. Selling and managing. In my own personal field, and I have found this with my staff, I have account service people who are great guys, who can get an account, get it in the house. I was one of those guys, but my interest begins to wane after a period of time.

PSP: You want to be onto something new.

John Cherry: Right. And that’s human nature. That happens to be my human thing. Hopefully we are smart enough around here to turn those accounts over to people who don’t like to get out and get shot. They don’t like to hunt. They would rather stay inside.

PSP: You have moved into so many different areas, have you ever looked back and said, “I didn’t know I could do this”?

John Cherry: Oh yes, certainly. Because of those cubbyholes our society pushes us into…like I thought I was an artist, I wasn’t supposed to know anything about bookkeeping, mathematics, or whatever. I think it really stifles a lot of creativity. I try to teach my kids…you can do it. Try everything. Draw a floor plan. Make some pottery. Play computer mathematics or play commodities exchange on the computer.

PSP: And do you think that having a broader view of the world helps you when it comes down to selling?

John Cherry: Of course. A salesman is a generalist. How much time do you spend talking about the product that you are selling? How many percentage points out of 100 percent. Ten percent? Eight percent? It certainly isn’t 75 percent.

PSP: Of course it depends on the prospect but most people want to have their anxieties calmed.

John Cherry: One of the best salesmen I ever knew told me that the better part of what you were selling was security. You weren’t selling the product, you were selling security. And his hook was he took a teddy bear with him.

PSP: Are you kidding?

John Cherry: No, he’d put it on the prospect’s desk, and he’d say, “See, that represents security. That’s what I am to you. You got a problem, you have anything go wrong, you have something you don’t like, you call me.”

PSP: Thank you.