Selling at Its Best

Salesman, trainer, manager, entrepreneur – Larry Wilson has worn many successful hats in a long career in the sales arena. His Wilson Learning Systems is well known and highly regarded by professionals and managers everywhere. He pioneered the term “sales consultant and trainer” and is still pioneering today. His latest challenge, a conference center in New Mexico, where Fortune 500 companies send their people to restructure old thought patterns and experience the unknown, boasts the only executive obstacle course with no books or classrooms.

At the Pecos River Learning Center in the mountains outside Santa Fe, managers are lining up to slide on a cable across a seemingly bottomless gorge. In this exclusive interview Wilson tells what they are doing, why they are doing it, and what positive professional outcome they will find at the other side. So, fasten your seat belts, readers, and slide.

PSP: In your view, what is the number one characteristic for success in sales today ?

Larry Wilson: The ability to deal well with ambiguity.

PSP: Let’s define the term “ambiguity” as you see it.

Larry Wilson: To me, it is stepping into situations where I don’t really know what’s going to happen.

PSP: Why will the salesperson who can handle ambiguity succeed?

Larry Wilson: He or she is going to have to be less product oriented, be able to work over a longer time frame, and be less driven by today’s sale. This involves a lot of uncertainty.

PSP: In other words, the hustler is out.

Larry Wilson: That’s right. One of the analogies I like to use is the difference between the farmer and the hunter. The hunter goes out and tries to make the kill and bring it back all by himself usually sort of the hero image. The farmer plants the seed, stays with it, tills the land and it’s a longer cycle. All these things you have to do and all the uncertainties like the weather and the conditions that might change your situation, might destroy it at the last minute, are always there. But the farmer very often represents a more cooperative kind of perseverance. Cooperating with the land, cooperating with the elements.

PSP: It sounds as if you are suggesting that business is growing faster and there are more complex selling situations with more variables for the salesperson to juggle and more ambiguities on a sales call because of that. What adjustments does the professional salesperson have to make to be successful?

Larry Wilson: He or she has to adjust to the needs of the larger companies and to the effects of fewer one-person decision makers out there in the field.

PSP: How can successful salespeople equip themselves to meet these challenges?

Larry Wilson: One of the things that they have to pay a lot more attention to is the product changes. I think that is a given, but that alone will not do it. Being able to deal in the ambiguities we discussed is going to require a very innovative and creative response.

PSP: There are a lot of people who need to see the world in very distinct black and white terms. And they don’t have much tolerance for ambiguity. They get very anxious if…

Larry Wilson: …they don’t have the answers. Our system reinforces the idea that we should know the answers, that the answers are traditionally black and white, and also that not knowing the answers represents some sort of psychological discount. If we don’t know the answers, there must be something wrong with us. We have this strong psychological need not to do wrong. We call it “to be right,” but it is really fear of being wrong.

PSP: Well, we have a fear of being judged and failing in the process.

Larry Wilson: Of course. That inability to tolerate ambiguity is really an inability to tolerate fear. Salespeople need to be more rooted within themselves. We want them to increase their self-management skills.

PSP: So we are talking about psychological wellness that the self-esteem is not threatened, that they are confident, they have the guts to tackle new issues, and thus increase their courage and flexibility. Are you in agreement with that?

Larry Wilson: Totally.

PSP: Okay, how do we do that?

Larry Wilson: A good way to accomplish that is by intervening in someone’s life. Many people make the kind of adjustments we are talking about after some sort of crisis. It’s a transformational change that we are talking about. It’s kind of like the caterpillar’s changing into a butterfly.

PSP: Can a person do that by reading a book?

Larry Wilson: We don’t do that by reading a book, and we don’t do that by just willing or wishing it. That kind of change comes about after some kind of major crisis in our lives…where we are shedding, if you will, a part of us which seemed to serve us well.

PSP: Which is…

Larry Wilson: . . . the ego that has driven us out of earlier adversities and has said to us we have got to be great, we have got to be the best, we have got to be good. It’s a me, me, me, I, I, I, kind of orientation, driven out of fear. Okay, what we try…what our process is…is to literally shift that me to a we, a real we. When we talk about partnering, we talk about a different way to deal with people. Not the “make the sale and get out”…we are talking about really integrating ourselves with the customer at a very different level than we have in the past.

PSP: How do you help people make that inner shift?

Larry Wilson: We simulate crises. At The Pecos River teaming Center we simulate situations where people face fear. To go through this ego shedding process you need to deal with the fears that have kept you stuck where you are. We create simulations in which people face fears and then find that the can do things way beyond what their egos would previously allow them to do. In order for that to happen they have to be in a very supportive group. So, what we do is create high impact support systems while they are going through their feared situation.

PSP: You create a safety net with a support group.

Larry Wilson: Yes, the ego’s prime goal is to stay in control. Even when people are completely safe, in their own minds they may see themselves in danger. We give them a chance to face this dragon, to build workable strategies for breaking through the barriers that the ego has constructed.

PSP: It sounds as if you teach participants to take a calculated risk and realize that there is no need to have all that fear in their backpacks.

Larry Wilson: And we also teach them how to use the fear that is there…

PSP: To transform the fear into energy.

Larry Wilson: Exactly. And to accomplish that you really have to go through the process.-

PSP: Every time you learn a new skill or overcome an old fear, you grow as a person. Are there specific skills involved?

Larry Wilson: Yes, we teach them four strategic thinking processes.

PSP: What are they?

Larry Wilson: The first one is really the letting go process. It may sound paradoxical, but for people to grow they must let go.

PSP: With over control you don’t achieve anything.

Larry Wilson: Right, you are letting go of fear and ego perfectionism, you are letting go of the having to be right…and you are shifting the “me” to “we.” It’s the farming analogy again. The field that you are going to farm is your own life potential. The first thing the farmer does to farm that potential is to get to the weeds and other things that are draining the energy and eliminate them. The way he eliminates them though, is not by cutting and throwing them away. He literally cultivates them. He makes that a part of the process. He turns that over. That’s what we do, also. We take the “me” and we just shift that “m” from the me into a “w.” We just turn it over, and it becomes a “we.”

PSP: That’s a nice analogy.

Larry Wilson: In the same way that the farmer takes the weed and turns it over to make it a part of the growth energy, we turn over the fear. You don’t always eliminate it. You simply learn how to take it in and use it. That’s all part of the process of letting go.

PSP: Then second is…

Larry Wilson: The power of realizing that each of us is an individual miracle. That means we were not born by accident, that we were in fact born on purpose. Therefore we have a purpose and we need to connect our whole life’s work to that purpose. We need to live on purpose and sell on purpose.

PSP: So, you address the issue of meaning.

Larry Wilson: Exactly. Why am I here. I have two important questions, Who am I and why am I here? Purpose is incredibly important to salespeople who have already achieved this level. These salespeople are not just out there selling to make a living. They are really out there to make a life and they are using their work not to prove who they are but to fulfill their purpose.

PSP: You are saying that making a good living does not necessarily equate with making a good life.

Larry Wilson: A good living without purpose is empty. Truly successful salespeople know that they are not working to prove themselves. They are working to express themselves and that’s a transformational change. Most people are still working at one level to prove what they are worth.

PSP: The part you talk about is philosophical wellness where they know they are in tune with themselves.

Larry Wilson: Yes, this is almost a spiritual side…that they are connected to something bigger than they are. Then the third strategic process is in planting the seed. The seed that you plant in this very rich soil. With the purpose you enrich the soil. The nutrients have been added. Added energy. Okay, then when I plant the seed that is a visioning process. The vision seed. High-level performers who are highly creative and innovative have learned to work well with the laws that are out there. They realize that what they are about is creating visions. They are able to imagine the future and that’s what really pulls them forward. Selling at its best is one of vision transfer. I see it clearly in my mind; I help you see it.

PSP: It sounds as if you are talking about leadership, also.

Larry Wilson: It is a leadership skill, absolutely.

PSP: One of the definitions of a good leader is to be able to communicate a vision and bring out the best in every one of your followers.

Larry Wilson: We say the salesperson is the orchestra leader and that all of the various players have different instruments and that we have to orchestrate the sale using our leadership skills.

PSP: That explains why the meaning has to come first, because if that person has not found the meaning, he or she cannot have the harmony inside and therefore cannot create harmony outside.

Larry Wilson: That’s right. What we produce on the outside is always a perfect mirror of what we are producing on the inside.

PSP: What is the fourth process?

Larry Wilson: That has to do with letting the seed grow. What we do is support the growth process, it’s the farmer again. We do everything necessary and we avoid doing the things that would destroy the seed. For example, we don’t run out and pull it up the next day to see how well it’s growing. We have to have that tolerance for time and ambiguity and for realizing it’s going to take some time to bear fruit. In the longer sales cycle that we spoke of earlier, it’s going to take time to show results.

PSP: At your learning center you have a controlled learning environment where you do, in effect, build a support group, right?

Larry Wilson: That’s right.

PSP: Now, somebody cynical may say, “Larry, when people leave your seminar, they also leave the support group. “What happens when you face the next customer and realize that this is not a support group?

Larry Wilson: The support group did not create their experience. They created their own experience. We gave them permission and a certain amount of protection, but they are the ones who created it. We teach them how to go back and create a similar environment. We help them become very conscious of what happens so they can do it again in their own world.

PSP: What lead you to create seminars like this?

Larry Wilson: If you think about training as being like seeds, you know, I can plant a seed in you, let’s say, and you can let it grow. Wilson Learning was producing seeds. Very good hybrid seeds.

PSP: Without cultivating the sod.

Larry Wilson: Right. We were throwing the seeds on a variety of different soils. Some were very rich and we saw people get it right away and we saw others do pretty well. However, we saw situations where you might as well just throw that seed on cement because nothing was going to happen. I was intrigued with this.

PSP: What happened to make you change your focus?

Larry Wilson: I realized from my own experiences that real change was an internal matter.

PSP: Sticking with your sow analogy, what are your suggestions for dealing with a drought and what are your suggestions for dealing with a flood?

Larry Wilson: I think the most important thing that people can do personally is to be in touch with their egos. In other words, listen carefully to their own self-talk, critique themselves through what is going on. Then stop long enough to say, “Wait a minute, am I doing this to prove my worth? What am I going to prove?” Allow the inner voice that really represents the real you to come through.

PSP: So, what you are suggesting is for people to develop the ability of inner listening and inner responding, whether they are dealing with either a drought or a dry spell.

Larry Wilson: Exactly, that’s the soil. You see, the salesperson who is going to be able to tolerate ambiguity is going to have to be able to deal with innovation and creativity. Those are the people who are inner grounded, inner directed. They are not chasing a carrot or a rabbit.

PSP: They will have to develop flexibility and let go of the rigidity and controlling instincts that we all acquire to protect ourselves.

Larry Wilson: You’ve got it. These are the people who naturally add value to their relationship naturally trustworthy, naturally able to think strategically and innovatively and so on . . .

PSP: And they are people who make it fun to be around them.

Larry Wilson: That’s right. By the way, we all have this natural capacity. A natural ability to encourage trust.

PSP: How do you build that trust?

Larry Wilson: You build it by being that which you want other people to feel around you – by being yourself. In other words, what is your intention? If my real intention is only to pretend that I am trustworthy to get the sale, then I don’t know of any way to hide or disguise that, so trustworthiness comes from being a trusting person and it comes from trusting yourself more than anyone or anything else…trusting that as long as you are taking care of the other person that you will be taken care of. Thus you can let go of the fear of that and put all your emphasis on other people and helping them get what they want. In trusting that the universe, if you will, is going to provide for you in that process. In other words, that win-win is real.

PSP: How do you define the word integrity?

Larry Wilson: Integrity is the integration of the way you think, the way you feel and the way you behave. You are not thinking one way and behaving another way. You have integrated all of your parts. To me, integrity would mean wanting to make a positive difference.

PSP: Once you have integrity you become more predictable to other people and that reduces other people’s ambiguous feelings about dealing with you.

Larry Wilson: Yes, become more predictable in the sense that they know that you will do what’s right. That’s the predictable. Now, what you do is not predictable. But the fact that you will do what is right is predictable.

PSP: In other words to deal with the ambiguity, you have to reduce the ambiguity within yourself and then you will have less ambiguity on the outside.

Larry Wilson: You’ve got it.

PSP: Thank you.